Shaq on the damn Suns

From Simmons’ defense of the Suns getting Shaq:

Steve Nash looked like a dispirited alpha dog on a Survivor tribe that keeps falling short in every challenge.

That simile shouldn’t work, but he’s completely right. Simmons is the king of almost delegitimizing “real” sports by comparing it to something like Road Rules and then having it make senses.

I’ll post more thoughts about the trade in the comments.


22 Responses to “Shaq on the damn Suns”

  1. sloan Says:

    the big problem with the simmons piece is that he’s acting like he’s the only one in the world saying this was a good idea for the suns. but the column is so far past the deal happening that there are a ton of writers who have said they backed the deal. i guess simmons was sick last week, maybe that’s the problem.

    my feeling on the deal has shifted for two reasons:

    1. after hearing more and more how much marion hated being there.
    2. rethinking the extent to which shaq may have been overstating his injuries because miami was brutal.

    if shaq’s legitimately healthy, despite his age and limited game, i like the trade just for the improved chemistry. more and more, i think chemistry is probably the biggest thing in the NBA aside from having a great point guard.

    also, dwade should take off the rest of the year and let marion get 30-20s (and that’ll be 40% of the heat’s scoring and half of their rebounding.)

  2. sloan Says:

    also, isn’t it crazy how much the mavs had to give up for a broken down j.kidd in comparison to how much miami and LA had to give up for marion and gasol?

  3. sloan Says:

    simmons says at the end of his column that before the deal the suns had no chance of winning the title, and now they do.

    well…. who had a better chance? the celtics have been never there, and their bench is weak. the stones haven’t been able to put it together the last couple of years. lebron needs help, bigtime.

    the spurs are the odds-on favorite, but they’re banged up badly. and from there, was there really a team with a better chance to win the title than the suns? i think it’s overstating the case to say that the suns are NOW a contender. they were probably the best positioned team in the first place.

  4. Kenny Says:

    I think pat backed the trade on this site right after it happened. I think simmons (and the others who have since jumped on the bandwagon pat got rolling) is basically saying the suns weren’t winning the championship as constructed; because San Antonio, when healthy, controls the tempo so well and is so lethal in the halfcourt especially when Duncan is the biggest guy on the floor. And obviously the lake show got a lot bigger and better. But as I pointed out at the start of the season, Phoenix took them to 6 games despite having a crooked official doing one of the games and the league suspending two of their best players for taking one step onto the court. So I still don’t know that they were out of it. But i’m not in the locker room and apparently marion and amare did not get along. So from that perspective the trade makes sense. And if shaq is healthy and motivated he can still be effective in the right role.

    Yea the salary cap makes these deals weird. Phoenix had a huge salary they were willing to part with to help the shaq trade fit under the cap. Dallas had to throw in a bunch of much smaller salaries to bring them in line with kidd’s cap number. Rumor has it Stackhouse is going to be bought out and will likely re-sign with the Mavs. So it’s not like dallas is giving up a lot of actual talent. I like harris, but other than that? Diop is a role player. Ager, while I love him for being a spartan, has never exactly been earmarked as a star in waiting. He’s a 6’5″ shooting gaurd who is a good athlete and a pretty good shooter. That describes 99 percent of the shooting gaurds in the league.

    Does this deal make dallas significantly better? I mean in the case of phoenix they clearly had a glaring need for a big defensive presence. LA needed a big man because they were currently relying on kwame brown as their best big while bynum is out. But dallas was getting pretty good pg play. Most of the analysts seemed to think the advantage of harris is that he’s one of the few gaurds quick enough to stay with tony parker. Kidd is probably a better overall defender, and is definitely an up grade but how much of one? I don’t know that it’s enough to make a difference. I do know that i’m glad he didn’t go to cleveland.

  5. Pat Says:

    No trade cleveland could put together could have gotten Kidd to the Cavs. He makes way too much money and cleveland has nothing to deal.

    I am not in love with the deal pheonix made for shaq but it was a bold move that could pay dividends and gives their team some life and energy. I still think how diaw responds is the key to the deal.

    At first, i really hated the kidd deal for dallas but the more i think about it the more i think this may put them over the top. The one thing not to be overlooked in the kidd deal is his leadership ability. Dirk just doesn’t seem to be a real leader and the Kidd has always excelled in that area. I think that this might be the type of deal that works out well for both sides, much like the shaq to miami trade a few years ago. Miami won in that trade int eh short term (and by getting marion i think made it a good deal in the long term also). But the lakers got odom, caron butler and a draft pick that they turned into farmar and if they held onto butler (although they turned him into kwame and kwame into gasol) the deal with miami seems to have benefited them in the long run.

    Devin Harris is not as good as Jason Kidd, not even close. But he’s 10 years younger, quicker and cheaper. I think Kidd could help the mavs to win now, but would like this trade a lot more for dallas if they didn’t include 2 draft picks along with their players.

    THey give up valuable depth by trading diop, although if they get stack back that helps restock their bench.

    Anyways, i used way to many words to say that i like this trade for dallas in the short term, but really hate it for them in the long term. If they win a championship this year or next, it was worth it.

    Of all 3 of these trades, i think the lakers improved the most because they didn’t give up anyone significant or even a significant part of their future. Still not sure what memphis was thinking.

    Right now, I think the spurs are no longer the favorites in the west. Both dallas and the lakers (when bynum returns) may have passed them.

  6. sloan Says:

    first off, kenny is the only person in america still complaining about the crooked official. even phoenix fans have forgotten about that.

  7. sloan Says:

    uhh, i didn’t list any more thoughts.

    until someone settles it on the floor, i don’t think you can take anything away from the spurs. they just win in the playoffs. it’s what they do. and everyone else’s flaws are much much bigger than san antonio’s (if they’re healthy. and this year that’s apparently a big if.)

    to say that LA might have passed them, when they haven’t even had their big three on the same court yet, is crazy to me. if you have kobe, you’re always in a ballgame. but i’m not totally convinced. i wish they were a little stronger at point.

  8. sloan Says:

    it’s really hard to say, because there are so many injury questions (jkidd’s been banged up, bynum, shaq, the spurs) but if everyone is healthy in the playoffs, these are my playoff power rankings:

    1. san antonio
    2. phoenix
    3/4. (tie) Boston/Detroit (this could be a question of home court)
    5. Dallas (assuming the Kidd deal goes through)
    6. Lakeshow
    7. Utah
    8. Golden State
    9. Nawlins Hornets
    10. Houston

    Note—I think the Hornets are really really good, and I think they’d battle the Stones in a seven game series. That just shows the depth of the West.

    Anyone think Sam Cassell can make an impact for a Cleveland/Boston?

  9. Pat Says:

    Cassel to cleveland makes a LOT of sense to me but i’m not sure cleveland has an expiring contract thats as big as sam i am’s. They could certainly try to figure something but its no more than short term solution for a year or two.

    Am i missing something? are they going to cut him or something? how would boston get him?

    Still think you are underestimating gasol’s impact on the lakers. They might just be the favorites now, kobe is good. Dfish and farmar are a good 1-2 combo at the point and their frontcourt is actually legitamately 4 deep now with odom, bynum, gasol, turiaf.

  10. Pat Says:

    On the cassell to cleveland thing, maybe osmething like mobley and cassell for larry hughes, shannon brown and a pick. That would open up a little cap room for the cavs as well as give them a PG for the end of the season. I kinda like it.

    For the clips, i dont’ know their cap situation, they might be better off just letting cassell come off the books.

  11. sloan Says:

    when cassell was in boston playing against the celtics, he was openly “auditioning” for the Cs and begging for a buyout from the clips. slightly classless, but the guy wants to be another contender.

  12. sloan Says:

    one thing that drives me crazy about these deals is that all the management types involved were saying, “oh no, there’s absolutely no way this deal would ever happen, no way.” d’antonio was denying shaq like crazy. cuban literally joked that a reporter was smoking crack.

    maybe that’s what management has to do, but it hurts their credibility in future circumstances.

  13. Kenny Says:

    Why has the story about the crooked official gone away? Whatever happened to that dude? Instead of finding out about that we’re hearing about clemens bleeding from the butt.

    I agree with jerry that it’s too early to annoint the lakers. Obviously Bynum has shown remarkable improvement, and looks like he’s going to develop into a legit center in this league, but who knows how healthy he will be when gets back? His numbers this year are good but they don’t blow you away. 13 points 10 boards, basically the same numbers emeka gets and even comparable to such stalwarts as sam dalembert and andris biedrins who both get 10 and 10. Their bench has been really productive thus far, but are still pretty unproven. Guys like farmar and turiaf haven’t done anything in the playoffs.

    I’m not saying they don’t scare me, but I think the lakers still have question marks.

  14. zachary Says:

    a lot of posts, i stopped reading after like 8.

  15. zachary Says:

    id take kidd on the stones right now. hes been healthy, is on the olympics, looks strong, averages near a triple double. coach K loves the guy. why is anyone saying kidd is bad cause hes old? hes gonna be 35 in march. i give him 3 years after this season before his numbers drop significantly. current averages 11 8 10 1. career averages 14 7 9 2. in 05 and 06 hes played full seasons, and i dont think hes missed time this year. he said playing in the olympic qualifiers put him in the best condition of his life and prepared him better than before, so when we win gold in beijing behind kidd, id want him on my nba team the following season.

  16. Kenny Says:

    re-reading my first post I should clarify I didn’t mean to imply that kidd wasn’t still playing great basketball. he’s really good still and clearly a muhc better player than devin harris is right now.

    I guess what I was saying is how much better can he make them? Their offense already runs extremely efficiently, and is among the highest scoring in the league. He’ll definitely help them on defense, especially as a defensive rebounder.

    I agree his toughness and leadership are the x factors, that would could push them over the top, but those are difficult things to quantify.

  17. zachary Says:

    captain of olympics, i just quantified it.

  18. sloan Says:

    hahaha, the olympics are an argument for nothing.

  19. Pat Says:

    Kidd’s also shooting 36.6 % from the field and committing 3.6 turnovers per game. Last year he shot 40.6% and only had 2.7 turnovers. The previous season he was at 2.4 turnovers. Is that a trend?

    He’s still an upgrade over harris, but its a win now, mortgage the future type deal and only pays off if you win a championship. Take the picks out and i think its a good deal for dallas.

  20. zachary Says:

    ill take 11 8 10 1 and 5 turnovers a game.

  21. Pat Says:

    But real life basketball isn’t the same as fantasy basketball.

  22. zachary Says:

    its damn similar. i think i could handle being gm of a team with kidd as my pg for 3 years at the end of his career and 5 turnovers and 11 8 10 1. easy. wouldnt trade draft picks too t hough. cause the mavs wont win a ship by getting kidd, will only be marginally better.

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